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2shay



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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Tue May 08, 2012 5:31 pm

Agree Autumn. He may have gone down that path on his own eventually, but he wasn't really ever given the choice. As for people who choose to live a BDSM lifestyle? ahhh.....Sure, I though 50 Shades made it clear, and I agree, that what consenting adults do is fine. I don't necessarily want to know about or read about the more extreme aspects. The kinky fuckery in 50 didn't bother me.

Ya'll are probably right about Ana. I just want to romanticise their relationship too much, I suppose. It just seems more serendipitous, to me, if Ana had her own secret issues and these two very special people found each other......sigh......oh, well.
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sabby

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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Tue May 08, 2012 10:52 pm

So yeah I probably should have clarified my statement a little more to avoid misunderstanding. I definitely DO NOT view BDSM lifestyle/behavior as twisted at all; I'm actually a fan of it (mostly) Fae could tell you confused especially in M/M drool . I think for whatever reason I was feeling.... defensive (this was during the 1st book) about Christian's character and his portrayal as a "Dom" knowing that there is many NEW readers because of the hype that know very little/ to nothing about this genre let alone lifestyle and the stigma attached to it. And I just felt that some folks might get the wrong impression, as you had your friend push you to continue reading; Autumn also told me to continue that all would be explained. And like you said Shay the conversations with Flynn I think definitely helped to clarify (for those that might have needed it) the reality that BDSM is a lifestyle choice (for the most part) unfortunately not in Christian's case. Which actually gets me curious about how much Flynn knew about the Elena/Christian relationship and what his opinion on the matter would have been. I know his approach was to focus less on the past and what not but it would've been interesting to get a little snide comment or something.

And about Ana's self esteem, first most girls that age (or any age really) have self esteem issues but really I just viewed as given the fact this story was initially Twilight fan fiction; I just took it that she stayed fairly true to Bella's character. How Bella felt so "plain" and "unworthy" to be with someone like Edward and always asked "why me" blah, blah; it was pretty much how Ana related to Christian IMO. I do think there was something odd about hubby 3 but I though maybe it was abuse that the mom might have suffered not Ana directly. It would just seem if she had been a victim of some sort of physical/sexual abuse that her visceral reaction to any of the bondage would have been even more severe. But what do I know kick me

I still have yet to read the Anita books and see what all the contraversy is about old books vs new ones, no sex vs. mucho sex scratch I cant decide whether to start it or not Rolling Eyes LOL fainting

I think you could still think their finding eachother was very romantical Shay flirty. Ana might not have been as damaged as Christian but overall she saved Christian "from the dark" she was his knight in shiny armor of Love. That's a fantastic contemporary romancey spin!! draw u heart bruiser
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2shay



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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 09, 2012 8:07 am

Sabby--I think the first 5-6 Anita books are some of the best I've ever read. I have a personal aversion to outside influences affecting a characters choices, so I didn't like the later books as well, though I read through to....don't remember....book 12, I think. The blood bond in the Sookie books is what made me walk away from those, too.

star 50 star

Okay. This is probably going to be incomprehensible to all of you. Fifty is so appealing to me because of the deep psycology of the characters. I thought, in my own egotistical way, that I had figured it all out. Like a puzzle. For instance, why have I always been completely enthralled by horses and dogs instead of cats and gardening? Why do brown eyes turn me inside out and blue eyes are sort of ....ehh, okay. Why does someone meet identical twins and can't take their eyes off one while the other barely hits their radar? Is it mental? Emotional? Pheromones? And why in the world do I have this NEED to figure things out? Well, in 50 Shades I saw the answers to one couples compelling need and desires. It was a GREAT read for me because of those puzzle pieces beginning to fall in place. The BDSM lifestyle involved was just a piece of the puzzle, not the whole story. It filled a need for Christian the same way my life is just friggin' empty without......laugh if you want to....a damn company to run. I have taken over every where I ever worked until I finally got my own. I just damn well have to run something. Can't help it. That sounds a little Domish...oops.

There's more. A good portion of the posts I get from friends on facebook are about gay rights. Okay. Most of us support that. Do any of you know that their are organizations around supporting BDSM rights? Why is it anyone's business what people do in their personal relationships? Well, the truth is that until the late 90s sodomy was illegal in Texas. It stll is in many states. Do any of you know that most BDSM clubs are regulated by liquor laws? Yep. Under liquor laws in every state but Nevada and New York no visible nipples, pubic hair or butt clefts may be shown. No weapons of any kind. No guns, knives, chains, whips or other inplement which could, in extremis, be used to injure or damage another person. What the fuck? I actually saw mentioned that most bar owners won't allow ping pong tables because the paddles could be conceived as potental inplements of torture. There are some wild and crazy laws. Washington state (50 Shades) and Texas are two of the toughest.

I could go on about that for a really long time. So, one of the questions, to me, is what is so compelling about BDSM that anyone would take the legal risks? Christian, in Washingto state, was at very high risk. There, for instance, if a third party files a complaint about expected spousal abuse the prosecutor doesn't need a complaint from the allegedly abused spouse to arrest the accused. Under their family violence laws, they can prosecute anyway. So, if Kate had actually called the cops, Christian would have been arrested. His lawyers would have gotten him out....blah, blah, ....But he would have been outed to his family, friends, employees, etc. And he hung out at the clubs for a while. Christian was living on the edge. A lot more on the edge than most readers would ever know.

This is getting way too lengthy. Basicly, I guess I guess I have a lot of sympathy for and interest in this willingness to risk everything for the club lifestyle. Even in Washingto state and Texas what goes on in someone's home is highly unlikely to ever be noticed or prosecuted. But it can be.

And.....finally....I liked Ana better when she seemed a little needy. Of course, I guess we are all a little needy at that age. I adored Christian almost from the beginning. I had to learn to like Ana. She just seemed....inadequate somehow. I sort of agreed with her that there was no way she could hold on to a guy like Christian Grey.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 09, 2012 11:51 am

star 50 star

I really don't give a frog's fat ass what goes on the in the bedrooms of consenting adults. And the government should stay out of the bedrooms of consenting adults too. If a woman wants her lover to tie her up & beat the shit out of her then that's her business. I used to bartend at a sports bar. I had a deck of cards behind the bar so I could play solitaire when I wasn't busy. When SLED (SC Law Enforcement Division) came in on us one night to check IDs, etc, we got fined for having those cards b/c they were considered gambling paraphernalia. Also during that time SC bars used mini-bottles. No free pouring from big liquor bottles was allowed. We had a big Crown Royal bottle full of quarters (it was donations for a person in our community that had cancer) & we got fined for having the big liquor bottle in the bar even though it was obvious we weren't pouring from it. Some laws are just ridiculous. There are so many more important things that people need to worried about rather than worrying about what kind of sex people have & if there is a deck of cards in a bar.

Admittedly I had a lot of misconceptions about the BDSM lifestyle before I read FSOG. While I was reading it I did a little research & found out I was wrong about quite a few things. And while I still don't understand why a woman (or man) would want to be collared, gagged, beaten, etc I understand that he or she has consented & can stop it at any time they choose to. In one of the blogs I read there was an interview with a couple in the BDSM lifestyle. They said it's definitely not for everyone, of course, & that a person has to be "wired for it."

I think Dr. Flynn knew everything about Christian that there was to know. I don't remember exactly what was said in the book to make me think that but something I read did. And I think it would be useless to go to Dr. Flynn if he wasn't going to tell him everything. I really liked Dr. Flynn & I loved what he did at the party at Christian's parents house. I would have loved to know more about Taylor's life, too. I liked him a lot.

I think if EL James had been writing this for it to be published maybe she would've tied up some loose ends, answered some unanswered questions, let us know more about Taylor, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 09, 2012 12:05 pm

Here is a blog that is having a BDSMapalooza today & tomorrow. BDSM authors (I think some live the lifestyle) answer questions.

http://www.smutketeers.com/2012/05/09/bdsmapalooza/
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2shay



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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 09, 2012 1:15 pm

You know, speaking of BDSM, I think maybe the whole Master/slave dynamic disturbes me more than any of the physical or sexual acts. Well, some of the sexual and physical bother me, too, but just that...uh...no....try it and I wll cut you!....kinda way. But, I can't really understand why anyone would want to me dominated to the point of becoming a slave. Beat me, bite me, spank me...maybe...but don't expect me to call you Master. Ain't happening! Wear a COLLAR??? Are you fuckin' nuts? I am armed!
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 09, 2012 1:40 pm

star 50 star

I read a book once where the H/h had to go undercover in a BDSM club. He bought her a real pretty choker type necklace instead of a real collar to wear b/c he wanted her to feel as special as possible while they were having to do the D/s act.. In the room they were in the Ds sat in chairs & the subs sat in the floor at their feet & always looking down (unless they were told otherwise). The subs got only water to drink while the Ds got good drinks. Some of the Ds were openly fondling their subs there for everyone to see. Now this was NOT a BDSM book. It was a romantic suspense book but the author also writes some erotica with BDSM. So this may or may not be an accurate desciption of something that one might see in a BDSM club.

2shay, I agree. It's the master/slave thing that bothers me too. I guess maybe b/c I don't understand that part of it. I don't understand why someone would want to be dominated like that. Yeah if someone told me to call him master or tried to put a collar on me he would be eating his teeth.
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2shay



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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 09, 2012 2:18 pm

readerchic---I don't think you or I will ever, ever understand that. Nothing submissive about either of us. Actually, I understand some of the exotic sexual stuff better. I mean some of the kinky fuckery was .......never mind. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 09, 2012 11:51 pm

Hhhhhmmmm how to approach this subject...... so I'm actually not fond of the rigid roles of Dom/Subs either especially if they are going beyond "the bedroom" (or club whatever) but that's only because I couldn't see myself strictly in either role or would want to be confined to either role; which means I'm a "switch". But overall I believe I understand the attraction to this lifestyle. And I think once you can view the terms used "Master/Sir" "Sub/Slave" within the context of what the goals are during a "session" you can seperate them from the negative connotation that they are usually associated with.

I think there are many women out there that are independent, intellectual, successful woman who you would probably never imagine that they have a "submissive" bone in their body and I'm sure in RL they dont.... BUT when it comes to bedroom play its a whole different story. I think its just more about the excitement of doing something "taboo", the anticipation of new and unknown sensations. That's why I got aggravated at Christian's reactions being portrayed as "DOM" behavior; its not about punishment.... he actually said it in the beginning it is about TRUST; unfortunately how he proceeded (or rather the author) wasn't executed well. But once again what do I know I'm no expert or anything poke yap-yap :whis: cuckoo

Oh and Shay I agree I dont think Ana's character was fleshed out very well. We needed either for her to have more discussions with Kate or Jose to get a better grasp on her and give her more depth; aside from just drooling over how beautiful her Mercurial man was. I think it would have been perfect if she had continued sessions with Dr. Flynn to give us more insight. Oh well c'est la vie!! It was still an utterly entertaining read!! I have so many friends that are not "readers" that are reading these books, its really raging like a wild fire!! yes master
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2shay



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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Thu May 10, 2012 8:10 am

Sabby--I have heard so many people, including authors, having a ft because the 50 Shades trilogy is selling like hot cakes while, in their opinion, better books and better authors are still struggling. My opinion on that is....huh? I don't care what "they" are reading......they're READING! Who knows what they will pick up next. I think every serious reader should be reading these books and encouraging their non-reading or limited reading friends to jump all over them. We all.....bless all of you on this thread who have read or are reading these books and I don't care what you think about who, just bless you....we all need to be able to talk to people who are confused or a little squeamish about this story. We are getting NEW READERS!!! We should be pimping 50 Shades shamelessly. This kind of frenzy needs to be stoked!

Sabby--The stuff that goes on in bedrooms, including Master/slave, doesn't bother me at all, it's when it goes public. I just can't get my head around it, although if someone likes it? Who am I to say nay! Actually.....if I could find a nice sub willing to do a TPE arrangement, I could sure use someone scrubbing the floors! That would be just like having my very own Doggen!
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Thu May 10, 2012 11:36 pm

I have also heard/read a few folks/authors who are a little..... lets say bitter about E.L James success but for the most part I think even those people realize the inevitable positive outcome have having more/new readers become interested in this genre. I read thru several of the author interviews from that link readerchic put up "smutketeers" (hilarious by the way thanks), and most of them said its great that they have become so popular. I'm sure its tough for some authors who have been in the business a lot longer with rave reviews but a relatively small following take it a little hard to watch the good fortune of another, but they all seem to hope it will trickle down. That's why I decided to read the books because I saw so many FB friends and others who I've never seen to be consistent readers join this wave... and its definitely fun to see.

And I wonder if the doggen would be so good natured if they were made to wear ball gags and get spanked when the floor isn't shiny enough??? Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 7:51 am

star 50 star

Here is another great blog about BDSM. It's from March. Click on the link then scroll down a little til you see the post for Sunday March 18 then click on the dates in that post to see the different posts about BDSM. This is different from the other blog I posted.

http://www.guiltypleasuresbookreviews.com/2012/03/current-buzzbdsm-stripped-bare-322-327.html


I agree. I think most authors are glad for the attention the series has brought to the romance genre. Whether it's a positive or negative reaction to the series, people are curious about those books women read. I certainly understand their frustration though. One author that I've been talking to via email for a couple of years & that is an amazing writer was going through a tough time financially during the time EL James got her big publishing & movie deals. As much as I loved the books I was frustrated on behalf of my author friend that didn't have money for groceries & other authors that are struggling. However my friend (who hasn't read the books) never made a negative comment about EL James success. One thing that does irritate me is the people trying to piggyback off FSOG. The ones that say "If you liked FSOG you'll love my book" or something like that. I've seen everything from YA to M/M/M/F/M to "Daddy's Little Slut" books compared to the series. I think it's kinda misleading. Especially to the "new" readers that don't know a lot about the romance genre. As yall know, FSOG is "light" compared to a lot of books that are available. No doubt some people will be shocked when they read "real" BDSM and/or erotica. But having said that I guess I can't really blame to ones that want to ride the FSOG waves. I might do the same thing if I was an author.

One thing that concerns me is how accessible books are. It bothers me that a 13 year old girl can go in Walmart, a book store or to an online site & buy any book. Or they can just take one off their mom's book shelf. If a young, impressionable, naive teen reads a "kinky sex" book she might decide she wants to experiment. She might think it's okay for her boyfriend to share her with his friend. Or she could be injured trying some of the BDSM stuff. And while I certainly have no problem with adults doing any of these things a young teenage girl isn't capable of making decisions like that. They shouldn't even be thinking about having sex, much less having kinky sex. At one of the middle schools here where I live a 13 year old girl was caught in the bathroom with 2 boys (one was 13, one was almost 13). She was giving one of them a blowjob while the other one had his hand between her legs & her shirt & bra was off. I don't know how true it is but rumor was that she read about that in a book. I have a few friends that teach there (one found the 3 in the bathroom) & that's what they were told. I find it ridiculous that my son can't buy a video game if it has the word "damn" in it but he can buy a romance novel that has words & things way worse than that one.

And another thing that is bothering me is that it seems like all I hear about these days is BDSM and/or how "hot" a book is. Most of the reviews I read on review blogs start out talking about how much sex is in the book & how hot or kinky it is. It's almost as if the story or plot doesn't matter. I honestly don't care what people read. And one thing I love about romance novels is that there is something for everyone. If we all liked the same things the world would be a boring place. But right now I just feel like BDSM has kinda taken over. Authors that don't usually write it have started to do so. Authors that wrote one 20 years ago are revising & re-issuing. I just don't like for anything to be shoved down my throat like this (no pun intended). It's like those people from churches that go visit people when they are new to the area. They keep visiting & inviting me to church but really what they are doing is pushing me away b/c it's too much. That's how I feel now about BDSM. If I had had any interest in reading it, it would be gone now b/c it's just too much. I know that eventually people will stop talking about it so much & then whatever is the next "in" thing will take over. I realize that this is just a personal preference thing & this is prob not the place to be complaining about it. But all of this started b/c of FSOG. And to be fair I would feel this way no matter what the "in" thing is. It's not just BDSM. I assume it was kinda like this with vampires but I wasn't reading romance novels during that time so it didn't affect me.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 8:17 am

My sister read VC Andrews when she was in HS. Now, as she looks back on it she is stunned at how she was able to read something she considers smutty at such a young age. I started reading Anne Rice at the age of 14. Smutty or suggestive books have been available to children since smutty or suggestive books have been available. That's where responsible parenting comes into the conversation. Interestingly, the m/m books in the erotic genre come with a warning about not attempting sexual practices and are age restricted to 18 and above. They also encourage people to keep readers and books where underage children can't access them. 13 year olds are too young to understand all the ramifications of sex, that is absolutely true. As a parent of three teenagers I can tell you they and their friends certainly think about it whether I think they should be or not. Romeo and Juliet is about 14 year olds. That's assigned reading in a lot of high schools.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 9:14 am

At the school I went to we didn't read anything like that. I don't know if it's b/c this is the Bible Belt or what. At one of my son's ballgames the other night 2 moms were sitting behind me talking about whether they would let their child take the health (sex ed) class that will be offered to them next year. One said that she would b/c she didn't know how to talk to her child about it so she would just let the teacher explain everything. The other mom agreed with her. Talking with a child about sex isn't easy or comfortable but it's something that parents should do in my opinion. Even if they take a class in school they will still have unanswered questions. Maybe it's just me but it seems like kids learn so early these days.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 10:17 am

Interesting comments since I've been by! Wow. I don't remember how old I was when I read my first sex scene in a book, but it wasn't in my teens or from a school library! I read Catcher In The Rye in college and about died of shock and that's considered a classic! My first really "hot" sexy scene was in a book given to me by a close friends 70 plus year old mother! I nearly died of mortification to think that sweet old lady had read that! roflmao No advise to give to parents. Every kids is going to be different. I think, though, that if I had a young daughter I would rather her read about a healthy, good and satisfying relationship in a book that to hear what "they" say in school.

ETA: Sabby.....gagging and spanking a doggen is just so......wrong! readerchic told me about a new book called Fifty Shades Of Gravy. It's free on Amazon. Just the description had me howling! I love spoofs.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 11:58 am

VC Andrews and Anne Rice certainly weren't part of the school's curriculum. However, Romeo and Juliet is. It doesn't describe sexual acts but the theme of kids falling in love and having sex against their parents wishes certainly sends a message.

2Shay, I borrowed the Evanovich Plum series from a friend's mother who is in her 70s. While reading one of the sex scenes I suddenly realized, "Bertha knows I'm reading this." I almost died.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 12:27 pm

I know, Fae! Only half of my "blushing" was because I knew she read it! She asked me a few days later if I enjoyed the book. I don't think I ever really answered her. Frankly, I don't remember the book and I don't remember liking it. I only remember being mortified!

Fifty Shades Of Gravy is about a 5 minute read. Total spoof. My face still hurts a little from grinning all the way through it. This writer has Ana pretty well reduced down to.......I don't know. It took me a while to like Ana, so maybe I shouldn't say.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 8:37 pm

I read my first sex scene about 5 years ago. I was 35. And I'm not kidding. I never liked reading. In fact I don't think I had ever read a whole book. Not even for book reports. I got terrible, barely passing grades in school b/c I wouldn't read the books. I got by with Cliffs Notes. Then a few years ago I kept hearing about something called Twilight. I didn't have a clue what it was. But when I found out it was a series of books I was torn b/c I've never liked to read but I wanted to know why everyone was reading them. Well I'm one of those people that can't stand not knowing what people are talking about so I ended up reading the Twilight series. Needless to say I was hooked. But I knew nothing about genres, authors, books, etc. And I definitely didn't know anything about erotica. I only knew that I wanted to read more books. So I went to Walmart & skimmed the blurbs of a few books & picked out a couple I thought sounded good.. And wouldn't you know the very first book I start reading is a m/f/m book. I don't remember what the blurb said but it must not have been very clear about the m/f/m part. I didn't read it all & decided maybe I better do a little research before I buy any more books.

I don't really know a lot about the classics. It just wasn't something that interested me. I've heard of Anne Rice & VC Andrews but I'm not familiar with their books.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 8:40 pm

Oh, tonight on Dateline at 10:00 (eastern time) a man known to many as Master Bob is a person of interest in the investigation in his wife's death. Here's a little snippet & it shows the sex dungeon (their words, not mine).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/#47345248
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 8:42 pm

One more thing....My mama is the one that told me about Dateline. But first she asked me if I have heard of a book called "something about 50 colors." LOL Bless her. I told her I have them & asked if she wants to read them (I knew she would say no).
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Fri May 11, 2012 10:14 pm

RC I watched Dateline tonight. It was a very interesting case that is for sure. Did anyone else watch it?
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Sat May 12, 2012 9:05 am

I fell asleep about 1/2 way through it!! It's the weirdest thing....I can read all night long but if I try to watch TV at night I'm asleep in no time. Did he kill her?

Here is the video of EL James on The View.

http://www.gossipcop.com/el-james-the-view-video-fifty-shades-of-grey-author/
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Sat May 12, 2012 11:48 am

Couldn't get the video to load, and didn't really have time. Will try later. Been very busy. Between customers i have read a good bit about the Bashara case. There sure were a lot of his S & M friends turning him in......at least 20 reported him as "Master Bob". If they turned on him that fast? He's probably guilty.
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Sat May 12, 2012 8:26 pm

The Borgias had a little BDSM going on tonight! Ow.

ETA: and a little m/m......holy cow...
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PostSubject: Re: 50 Shades Trilogy   Wed May 16, 2012 11:52 am

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