ADRIEN ENGLISH

And, as always, not only do I respect your opinion, but I also trust your instincts and will grant that you are probably right. I need to read a little further, but I think I have a point to make in here somewhere.

SPOILERS

I think the fact that Adrien believed Jake was about to rape and murder him speaks volumes. His first thought when he saw Jake wasn't "thank god, I'm saved!", it was more along the lines of "oh shit, I'm dead now".

Death of a Pirate King

I never thought Jake would hurt Adrien. Not for a second. Adrien did. I was glad Jake went to Paul. It proved Adrien's point that Paul is a nutcase and probably saved Adrien's life. I also don't think Adrien or Jake would have participated in a threesome with Paul.

Just because Jake lost his temper doesn't mean he could have killed Adrien. Yes it's wrong but, it happens. Jake truly regretted it IMO.

I think one of the themes of the whole series was Jake's willingness to subvert an investigation to keep himself in the closet. Jake begged Adrien to not get on that boat. If he really thought Paul was innocent why would he do that? An innocent Paul isn't going to do anything to Adrien. Jake had to get himself on the boat somehow. To restore his respect for the law, stop a miscarriage of justice, and to save Adrien's life. We have evidence time and time again Paul was crazy and lied to Adrien repeatedly. Paul was truly stunned Jake was arresting him and wasn't going to rape Adrien with him. Personally, I think Jake was aware of Paul's guilt but wasn't sure what to do about it until Adrien forced his hand.

"Was this the best way for Jake to save Adrien? Nope. But it was the most dramatic." - I think it was the only way - he absolutely HAD to be on that boat. The fact that he really did care for Paul and didnt want to believe that of him in my book is a good trait - he wasnt screwing a guy that he didnt care about albeit not to the same level as Adrien (the caring not the screwing actually both!) but he needed to know what was really going on and had to play the part accordingly; once push came to shove and he had to do or die there was only ever going to be one course of action for him.

Jake could have arrested Paul in the middle of the night and preempted Adrien. That would have been better. It made for a better book to have it all go down on the boat. Maybe he felt he needed the confession though. I think he didn't realize Paul was as completely crazy as he was and would try to shoot Adrien. Jake had really lied himself into a corner. He didn't really have any options at that point if he didn't want a murderer to go free.

Adrien English Series

Okay. Here it is. The problem I have had from the beginning is about another character in another series. My favorite series of all time and my most hated charater of all time. If you can truly hate a fictional character....well, I have hated this one for a really long time. The parallels between Jake and this guy were too close. Way too close. The rough sex in the clubs, the rage, the hidden life. To embrase Jake, I had to take a closer look at a really bad man who had done unspeakable damage to my favorite hero in literature. Towards the end of The Dark Tide, Nick Argyle's story of rejected "love" and his instant violent reaction says so much. The forbidden love. The self hate. Like Jixn Stephens/Jane Powers said, the dark tide of fear that keeps dragging you under. Just one more day of safety. That's what Jake wanted...one more day of feeling normal...one more day to be who he wanted to be...for his family and the family he wanted to have. One more day to not be the guy living outside of societies boundries. Ultimately, I found the true villian. While calling Paul the true villian of this story ignores the role of societal taboos, he became the safe transferance, for me, of the dislike (as opposed to my former total hatred) of my most awful literary villian...ever. On second reading, seein all the tenderness that Jake showes Adrien....trading his burger for Adrien's salmon when he saw Adrien push his plate away....the little kiss in the book store...the arm around the shoulders in the cemetery....hell, the bj in the hotel just for a last time with Adrien....all those things turned the tide for me. I think the only way to express what I feel about Jake is to paraphrase Jake, himself, ....love Jake? Baby, I fuckin' adore Jake. Jake is who this whole story is about. For me. His journey of self discovery through the eyes and heart of Adrien. And Jake is a hero. In many ways. But, mostly he is a hero to Adrien. And that's enough.

Well halle-fucking-lujah!!! You know I am joshing with you, right? I agree the whole story is as much Jakes as Adriens ( if not all Jakes ) - but then they are one - AJ right?

I know! And this story is so compelling to me. I keep thinking about it. The many different ways my mind flits around different subjects and characters. Paul. He was the problem, you see, to me. Jake's longest relationship was with Paul. How could Jake have a better self image when his closest gay relationship was with Paul? Paul was a really sick and manipulative man. Did that just feed Jake's own feelings of gay hate? He said the sex he had with women was pure Ward and June Cleaver. But, he liked women. Had no need to hurt them, sexually. Even if it wasn't what he wanted and needed, it made him feel better about himself and brought out his tenderness. It had to hurt him badly to leave Kate. But, he said at one point, after the boat, that he didn't come out just for Adrien. It (I am assuming his marriage and "normal" life style) wasn't working for him, and that people have many reasons for doing things. Of course, protecting himself at the cost of perverting his job was a huge reason, too. Paul wasn't the only one capable of blackmailing Jake. He was blackmailing himself. And, he knew it. And, he had to stop. Adrien was the catalyst. He had never met anyone like Adrien. A good, honest, openly gay man who was beautiful and knew he was loved. What a difference. It's no wonder he almost hated Adrien at times. I have to stop. I can go on about this forever! And probably will!

WEll, hell. Now I have to order another t-shirt! AJ'd!!

SO I will finally be able to get started on this series tonight; thanks to Swede's pushy pimpin ways!!!!! Got my hands on the first 2 books of the series now I can see what the obsession's about!! Thanks a lot Swede!!

Good thing!! I thought you had already started. I've been waiting for your comments. I kind of miss the chocolate. Can we rotate?

Hey, Sabby! You will love this series.

I had been wondering if you had started lol

DEW started too.

Yes sorry I got swept off into DG's Outlander world for awhile but have to stop (slow down) so I can get started on this very enticing series as well!! Will keep y'all posted on my progress.

to showme....... yes I rather miss the chocolate as well but figured variety is always good . I'll switch it up soon enough!!! LOL

So finished the first two I really enjoyed them, especially the second. I think definitely the nuances of Adrien and Jake's progressing relationship make for a phenomenal story. I'll be glad to delve deeper into the complexities of Jake's character. I was really pleasantly suprised how tender the love scenes were, with all the excitement I'd heard about this series I was expecting something raunchier (knowing how naughty you ladies can get ). Well at least the scenes with Jake still :hmm: about the scene with Bruce as did Jake curious why Adrien let it happen?? Cant wait to keep reading though thanks for the pressure pimpin Swede!!!! :worthy:

Spoiler--Adrien English--Spoiler Couldn't find the spoiler star

Sabby--I think that Adrien was afraid Bruce would kill him outright if he didn't seem compliant...or, eager. Adrien was sort of caught up in his own investigation and got himself into a corner. I think.

Oh noes, did g-p delete the stars? :star: Does typing them in still work?

Nope. Oops.

2shay I definitely understand he got himself cornered and he was afraid to completly fight back but it just seemed like he was a little too compliant at the end?? So much so that it gave him away even more. But its a tough call who knows what anyone would do in that situation??

sabby---All true. Some of it sort of clears itself up, a bit. As you get to know Adrien more you will see that he is pretty much of a sub. He doesn't really stand up to the more dominant men very well.

Hhhhhmmm I guess we should keep him away from V?!?!?!?!

Keeping Adrien away from V would be a good thing!

he and blay would get very well though, Saxton too :vamp: