| ADRIEN ENGLISH | |
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+10DEW sabby Dragonlady showmethelove b4v gracious-plenty Greencat 2shay FaeLadyFaye Doppleganger 14 posters |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:20 pm | |
| Adrien English General Spoilers I think I have had an epiphany about Jake. In the last book, when Adrien and Jake are together in Jake and Kate's bedroom. Adrien wonders about why Jake has condoms. That has bothered me, and I have posted about it more than once. I first just believed that Jake was being careful about possibly infecting Kate since he had been going back to the club, and that may have been part of it. But, what I really believe, now, after my epiphany, is that Jake wanted to be sure that he didn't get Kate pregnant again. Maybe some of you caught that? I didn't until just now. I think he knew as soon as they lost the baby that he couldn't go on with the deception forever. He couldn't go back to Adrien because of the awful way he broke up with him...and, Adrien was with Guy by then. Jake wouldn't have wanted to hurt Adrien again by getting in the middle of that relationship. And, there is a very good probability that Jake didn't go back to the club until they lost the baby. I still have to finish my reread, but I thought you might all like to know that I am finding more reasons to like Jake. Who knows. By the time I finish rereading, I might just love the guy. I will let you know if I get AJ'd! | |
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showmethelove Moderator
Posts : 1260 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 45 Location : Missouri
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:25 pm | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:30 pm | |
| But Kate had also said she didn't want to try for kids again either - didn't she? |
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FaeLadyFaye Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 49 Location : Southern California
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:34 pm | |
| Yes, Kate didn't want kids at that point in her career. The first time was an "accident," maybe Jake was making sure no more "accidents" happened.
Yay 2shay!!! Even people who make horrible mistakes can be redeemed in Joshlandia. Kind of a big theme of all his work if you think about it. | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:49 pm | |
| Well, Jake told Adrien that Kate didn't want to try again right away, and it might have been true. I think Jake wanted to make sure. There are a lot of birth control methods besides condoms. He wanted condoms so that he was in control of birth control. Didn't trust Kate to take care of it again? But, then again, maybe it was just Jake not wanting to admit that he knew right away that he had made a terrible mistake. I really think that Jake would have come out and divorced Kate even if Adrien hadn't almost gotten killed. He had already comprimised his own values when he started trying to protect his secret at Angus' house. Jake was a good cop. Doing that to protect himself had to violate all of his core belief system. Not to mention that he never for a moment stopped loving Adrien. | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:50 pm | |
| Well, huh. Have I been AJ'd? | |
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FaeLadyFaye Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 49 Location : Southern California
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:58 pm | |
| Possibly, but I won't tell anyone if you want to keep it a secret. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:07 pm | |
| Took long enough he had me from first "baby" |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:41 pm | |
| Okay. Jake betrayed Adrien by telling Paul Kane what Adrien had planned. Sorry. I am not feeling the Jake love right now. Even after Jake saving Adrien's life. Jake did not have to betray him. I think Jake cared too much for Paul and his own safety. I just don't see me being AJ'd. I tried. Sorry. | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:21 pm | |
| Spoiler Okay, okay! I'm a little closer. First thing after the break-in at the book store, Jake offers to handle the cops for Adrien just because he wants to do it for him. A pretty nice..and lovabe...thing to do. One step closer! | |
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Doppleganger Admin
Posts : 1334 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 51 Location : Kansas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:43 pm | |
| The Hell You Say The Shoving Incidident - that was what put Jake in my bad graces too. A lot of the rest of Jake's crap I could put into context and forgive (eventually, by the end of the series), but not that. Adrien was utterly defenseless. There really isn't a good way to paint Jake's behavior in that scene - bad is bad. I eventually did get around to liking Jake, but that scene still bothers me. Did Jake ever really apologize for it? I remember something along the lines of "if you don't think I feel bad about that...", which is a nonapology. It was more like an additional insult. Adrien annoyed me too. Yes, he was a victim of Jake's behavior, but he knew what he was getting into with Jake. He put up with too much. :-( | |
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FaeLadyFaye Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 49 Location : Southern California
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:49 pm | |
| I think Jake wanted to say sorry then Adrien had to go do an Ali McGraw impression and trivialize what Jake was trying to do. Shoving Adrien was wrong, but merely seeing where it happened left Jake speechless. He didn't view it lightly. | |
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Doppleganger Admin
Posts : 1334 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 51 Location : Kansas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:01 pm | |
| True, Adrien let Jake off easy. Waaay too easy, humiliating groveling was warranted.
But hey, if Adrien wants to be passive aggressive all he has to do to make Jake feel like shit is put a marble in an obvious location.
Those marbles were the saddest imagery. Sad marbles, for petes sake! That's a little piece of writing brilliance. | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:19 pm | |
| SPOILER...SPOILER..
Yes it was Dopple. The visual of that one marble rolling down the hall while thenothers scatter......oh...! The push was bad. I think the hardest thing for me is still the phone call to Paul. He had even told Paul in the past that Adrien had good instincts, and he still put Paul and himself first, knowing that Adrien was sure that Paul would kill him whether he went to the boat or not. Adrien knew. He knew. And Jake betrayed him and nearly let him get killed. I am beginning to think that Adrien has some pretty serious issues, himself, to even be on speaking terms with Jake. Maybe it's because he never expected to live anyway. Maybe Jake is his way of thumbing his nose at death. I don't know.
Last edited by 2shay on Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Trying to add spoiler stars) | |
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FaeLadyFaye Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 49 Location : Southern California
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:26 pm | |
| Wow, I didn't take Jake telling Paul Adrien's plan that way at all. I saw it as a way to get himself on the boat to keep Adrien safe and to arrest Paul. Adrien would have the recording and Jake would make the arrest. | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:44 pm | |
| You are probably right. You usually have a good take on things, but I have read it twice and I still don't see that. I just saw him giving Paul a chance to defend himself, because up until the confession to Adrien, Jake never believed Paul was guilty. Believing Paul was innocent, why was he on the boat? Maybe just to be sure that Paul didn't hurt Adrien if he was pissed about Adrien's accusations. Maybe ? | |
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FaeLadyFaye Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 49 Location : Southern California
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:50 pm | |
| I think he knew Paul was guilty but bringing him in would expose him as gay, so he refused to do it. | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:11 pm | |
| Maybe. I know he loved Adrien. I have no doubt about that at all. And I know he wouldn't want Paul to harm Adrien. So, I do think he was there to protect Adrien in case Paul got out of hand. I don't think he expected to have to arrest Paul. | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:31 pm | |
| Spoiler I keep forgetting the spoiler stars. Damn... I am reading carefully. I want to know if Jake ever denies the plans Paul had for Adrien. I seem to remember, but am noy sure. | |
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FaeLadyFaye Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 49 Location : Southern California
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:33 pm | |
| Why would Jake need to deny Paul's plans? | |
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2shay
Posts : 2101 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 74 Location : Lamesa, Texas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:10 pm | |
| Paul planned on him and Jake raping Adrien into a heart attack. That would have stopped any false accusations against Paul and protect Jake's closet. Jake had almost gotten mad enough at Adrien once before to kill him. Adrien thought he might have done it. Accidentally. If Paul hadn't confessed to murder, what would Jake have done? The only thing he said to Paul is that he wouldn't condone murder. I don't know for sure that he wouldn't have condoned the threat of a little 3 way to intimidate Adrien into shutting up. He was pretty mad when Adrien told him his plans. I think he would have backed out, because I don't think he would have let Paul touch Adrien. I'm not sure that he wouldn't have let Adrien think they would if he stayed convinced that Paul was innocent. | |
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FaeLadyFaye Moderator
Posts : 1931 Join date : 2011-02-06 Age : 49 Location : Southern California
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:14 pm | |
| Sorry, I don't see it that way at all and will have to agree to disagree with you. | |
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Doppleganger Admin
Posts : 1334 Join date : 2011-02-10 Age : 51 Location : Kansas
| Subject: Re: ADRIEN ENGLISH Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:58 pm | |
| spoilers I thought it was one of those double-double-crossings. Here's how I thought it went down. I thought Jake initially thought that Adrien was full of hooey and called Paul. But he was cautious enough (cop!) during that phone call to find out what Paul's plans were and weasel his way into them. Unfortunately, the only way for Jake to save Adrien from Paul was to fool both Adrien and Paul into thinking he was in on the dastardly plan. Of course, Jake has treated Adrien so horribly by this point, that Adrien totally believed that Jake would be in on it and got the holy hell scared out of him. Since the story is told from Adrien's POV, the reader was fooled too. I think Jake's reaction after Adrien is shot tells the real story. Later, when Jake talks about the time he begged, pretty much clinches it for me. I do not believe Jake was on that boat to harm Adrien. Was this the best way for Jake to save Adrien? Nope. But it was the most dramatic. I say we ask Josh about it during the chat! The whole twitsy situation is good discussion-fodder. | |
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