Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!

L was a pretty good mother. What else?

I regularly read that, and the comment she had no problems accepting men who had been somehow disabled. It's the mother thing that I hear most frequently. I also find it quite impressive. It's difficult to not let your own problems interfere with how you raise your children.

Oh, I forgot about the bible guy and he was one whose hanging did work!

Leghair may have cared about her children and even took a beating once for one, but most of the time, she does put herself before her children, so even the "good mother" that is suspect in my eyes at times. I mean who would rather match up their child in a possibly loveless marriage than let them go be a none which is what they want? Especially when L has had three of the worst marriages represented in the series. She doesn't seem to like men...or is that just Jamie...I actually had though the person she would be found with would have been a woman, but than Jamie wouldn't have been able to force her to marry and she'd still be extorting money from Jamie and his family. There is a reason Jenny called her "The Grizzler"! She just was never happy and never realized how in many was she was lucky.

Voyager

Hey twin! Missed you!
As for the L and J pairing, Jamie told Claire that she didn't like the bedding, and he did have the dream-sex seen with Claire in which that made him bitter that she didn't like it, so I going to assume she never liked it, because it would take once once to awaken her to the sexual beast of Jamie and then want that again. I think she was bitter becasue he didn't love and worship him and was scared of him. (No idea why), but I am also thinking that maybe she really did believe calire a witch and so thought of Calire and her fatch being there in her bed. Also Jamie did call out to Calire and then get aroused. Maybe he's take her in those moments and as much as I hate L, for your husband, even is you married him for necessity and not love, was using you as a vessel and making love to someone else, I'd be bitter and not enjoy it either. Maybe Jamie is a bit at blame if he never did explain that he would never stop loving Claire, and that he would try and make L comfortable, but that he's never love again. Mary understood this. She let him love Claire through her. Leghair would never understand this because she is way too selfish, but many of us wouldn't want to live like that either. The difference is that I truely believe that L never loved Jamie and even if she thought Jamie loved her, even after finding that false, she still did marry him for convenience not love and they were now married in the 18C where divorce was non existent so any normal women would have tried to make the marriage work. She didn't. She was too self absorbed to compromise in any way even the slightest amount. She is truly a child and a bratty one at that. She should have acted an adult by this time. As much as I don;t want to admit it,. Jamie always puts 100% into a task and tries to make the best of any situation. The fact that she was so immobile and that he failed to immensely as to leave a marriage, shows her immaturity IMO. But there is also a part of me that thinks Jamie subconsciously wanted to be unhappy as penance and maybe didn't try as much as he thought he did. Maybe he picked her because he knew it would never work (and he wanted to get laid). Maybe L reminded him of Claire...I mean in Exile when he kissed L he pretended to be kissing Claire. The groom at Leoch even said that L would still be a child still at 40 or something like that, the he should marry a woman...like Claire.

(*)Echo(*)
L doesn't have many redeeming qualities as far as I'm concerned. The one thing she did that was of note was go to Claire and ask her to care for Henri Christian. This was a huge sacrifice for Claire, she and Jamie hated to be parted, but it enabled Claire to bargain with L and end their obligation to her.

And the funny thing is that Claire was going to do it without a bargain but L expected one or would have though Claire was up to something, so Claire for once used that to her advantage and got Jamie out of the financial obligation, but L's daughter was the best at that time. She was a perfect perspective of her own mother. And Marsali even gained L's scheming!

...and doxie, if you type a colon and the word start and a column, you will get a star...like this without the spaces : star :

UAP, I agree.......and thanks for the star hint. I need all I can get!!

Yeah Outlander thread!

Echo

Ugh no matter what I still can't stand Laoghaire! As she ever said she's sorry about anything? She has always hated Claire and been allowed to call Claire all kinds of awful names,and no one has ever told her to stop. Not even Jamie. And you can be sure,even after she had to ask Claire to go save her grandson,she thinks Claire is an evil,ancient, hussy, witch.

And I am still mad at Jenny for having Leghair show up and for Claire to find out about Jamie's other wife. I so wish we could have heard what Jamie said to her after Claire left. And what did Ian think? And of course did she regret it once Leghair almost killed her brother?

Jenny didn't seem all the that remorseful when Claire asked why IMO. Ian I thought, thought she was wrong and against the whole Leghair/Jamie set up from the start and made it known to Jenny that it was a bad match. But he always lets Jenny do what she wants and defers to her judgment. Makes me wonder what other bad marriages people are having to live with because of her matchmaking.

Hey Twin, missed you as well!
Echo

I'm not so sure L was a great mother either. She didn't want her daughter to become a nun, but to marry a man she didn't love. But, maybe that was so that Joan would be near her vs. Marsali a continent away. So, that would be a selfish action in my book. And, L didn't stop banging Joey when the priest and Joan begged her to stop her actions (again selfish - not caring for her or her daughter's reputation and/or their lives as sex without marriage was considered a crime against God in the those times). Ahhh, would have been great to read a scene about L getting stoned for her wantonness! :P

Morning! Have a great Saturday.

Hey ladies who haven't read Outlander yet..here's a bit of Jamie taling to Claire! You will see why we all love him!


"Does it bother you that I'm not a virgin?"

He hesitated a moment before answering. "Well, no," he said slowly, "so long as it doesna bother you that I am."

He grinned at my drop-jawed expression, and backed toward the door. "Reckon one of us should know what they're doing," he said.

The door closed softly behind him; clearly the courtship was over


And here's another



“Does it ever stop? The wanting you?” His hand came around my breast. “Even when I’ve left ye, I want you so much my chest feels tight and my fingers ache with wanting you to touch ye again.”

Yes, some of the many reasons we love Jamie! I need to start rereading. I just can't get interested in any of the books I've started since I finished the series.

Doxie, that is so funny. I read Outlander and all of the Lord John books and stories, and sighed because it over until another book comes out. Tried some new stuff. Nope. Went right back to the beginning and started over. You know what? The second reading was better. Much better. I am wondering now about a third read. Hmmm..

I agree. I've not much comes close. We've been ruined for all other books...lol. I must say though, after reading the series 2 1/2 times, and yes ever better the 3rd time so far 2shay, I see why I like Cat and Bones so much. JF has said that DG is one of her favorite authors and I see her influence in the way the characters interact and the plot lines and action and mushy parts. Of course JF is her own and is very creative and brilliant, but here and there I so see the ode to Herself!

I agree, Claire is a better mother to Marsali then L IMHO!

I did not know that JF is a DG fan. Cool. Would that be why they are my two favorite series? Yep. Could be.

From reading on another thread, uap, you know that the quote kimba put up is one of my favorites. There are many others.

Thank you Kimba! Awesome~really anything Jamie says is perfect. You could practically open any page and find a great quote, he is quite the Highlander!

That is really interesting about JF, I will keep that in mind when I read them

I started rereading last night. As predicted, it's even better than the first time. I'm just a few days into Jamie and Claire's marriage. So many reasons to love this series:)

Hey, Dox. I found that I paid much more attention to details and other characters the second time. The first time I just wanted to kmow what was going to happen next. The details that barely registered the first time were so much more vivid the second. Enjoy.

Oooh Kimba you tease!! Now you know I am going to have to find out the rest of that!!

2shay, you're so right. I even found that keeping an open mind about Frank helped me get through the first few chapters. The first time I read O, I instantly disliked him. I don't know why, but I definitely did. This time, not so much, but that may be because I know his time in the book is short. My first read, I struggled through about the first 180 pages(Nook). I kept reading though because everyone raved about it, and I'm so happy that I did. Round 2, I'm gliding through and, as 2shay said, enjoying so many of the finer details.
Kimba, I read that last night. Jamie said that to Claire right before they were married.

Dox, you will notice more ofnthe beautiful quotes, too. And the really funny stuff. I noticed it the first time, but the second time I read

DIA

the part in Paris when Claire came home from her friends after the waxing left me in histerics. Talk about a great siggy! I may change mine......"What? She's taken the hairs off her honeypot?"

2shay, those are great quotes. Here's one of my favorites from Outlander.
"Bloody Christ," I said, impressed despite myself. My sense of propriety slipped another notch.

Claire has quite a way with words.

I have started the audio book of outlander Only how many books to go lol.

2shay- I met JF at comic con NYC and JF had a fan moment stalking DG- I wrote about it on JF's frost fan website. Verra funny indeed!

The audio books are great. Just make sure you get unabridged. Two of the books are not yet available on audible (only abridged), those you must get at recorded books. Enjoy

DiA :star
So, I had a thought...C and J had the argument about J owing her a life because she saved his twice and he agrees to not kill BJR for a year so he can conceive Franks, but only because if something happens to him, then he knows she will have someone who loves her to go to and makes her promise she will. I was thinking, because he doesn't kill BJR, they later on get the plans of the British for helping Alex and then we find BJR collapsed on top of Jamie at Culloden. Could sparing BJR's life have saved Jamie's at Culloden? Could BJR have killed Murtaugh and then saved Jamie?