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 Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!

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uapeople

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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:42 am

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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:29 am

star DIA star

uap--I would love to know the answer to that, but I don't even have good speculation about what happened between BJR and Jamie at Culloden.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:51 am

OMG- I loved these posts and now they are easy to find...http://www.myoutlanderpurgatory.com/p/my-favorite-entries.html. They are the gals from Outlander Purgatory and their thoughts when first reading the series!
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:39 pm

I have re a bunch of those. Those women are crazy!
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:39 am

Morning, Outlanders!
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:19 am

I wish when Bree showed up and found out about her step mommy Leghair that Jenny would have talked to her. I have often wondered,did Jenny feel guilty for almost denying Jamie his daughter,because you know if Claire would have left like Jenny wanted her too;Jamie would have never known his daughter. I think Ian talking to her about Leghair was a cope out on Jenny's part. And of course he didn't mention what Jenny did to get rid of Claire.

:evil: I am still very angry at Jenny.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:54 am

Kimba-- The line of us who are very mad at Jenny about that whole situation is very long. Then there is another line of those of us who are mad at her for the way she treated Jamie over Ian staying with the Indians....not writing...then dropping another bit of L info in his lap without telling him who L was tupping. Jenny is not on my favorites list. If I could think of an appropriate one, I would give her a nasty nickname, too. There are times she and Leghair deserve each other.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:23 pm

I've recently started my reread of the series. The first time I read through, I had my doubts about Jenny's feelings towards Claire. I haven't changed my opinion on this second read. I've almost completed Outlander, and I still am not sure how sincere she is about Claire being her "dear sister." Perhaps Jenny is the type of person who thinks no one would ever be good enough for Jamie, perhaps because she's English, perhaps she senses something "different" about Claire, but regardless, I don't believe that Jenny is that fond of Claire. Maybe after all the things that have happened throughout the series Jenny will mellow in book 8. I hope so. Jamie loves her dearly, so I hope something will redeem her, at least for me as a reader.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:23 pm

I am in the line for being upset with Jenny as well. I am curious to see how she is going to fit in with Marsali and Fergus. She is used to being in charge, so will she adapt and fit in or will she try to take over? I do hope DG goes into detail on Jenny's storyline and why she did the things that she did to try to split up Jamie and Claire. Her dislike of Claire in Echo was just selfish. After she found out why and where Claire was during the 20 year gap of time, one would think she might be more sympathetic or caring knowing that Claire didn't have a choice in leaving Jamie and that Jamie was the one that told her to go when she wanted to stay with him.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:24 pm

star Echo star

I found it odd that Jenny never mentioned Bree in Echo to Claire or Jamie. But, Jenny had a lot on her hands with Ian dying.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 am

Sorry everyone for being MIA, but on a business trip. Will catch up later tonight.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:01 am

I agree, doxie. I didn't really catch it during my first read, but I doubted that Jenny liked Claire from the beginning. Your reasons sound about right, too. Anyway, at this point in the story, Echo, I am just not feeling the love for Jenny.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:32 am

book 8 spoiler from 2/23 that I missed http://community.compuserve.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=76&nav=messages&webtag=ws-books&tid=70258 Jemmy in the tunnel continuation
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:16 pm

I finished Outlander yesterday and am hesitating to start DIA......it has so many sad parts. Funny too, but lots of sadness. Sounds crazy, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:59 pm

Doxie--It is very sad. But, there are things that make it worth the read. I will bet you enjoy Roger and Bree a lot more. The first time through, they seemed like a distraction. The second time through, I just loved them. Plus, you get to read about Jamie's night at the brothel and Claire getting her oxters waxed.......priceless!
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:36 am

Morning, Everyone!

uap, Thanks for the link. Jemmy, Jemmy....poor baby....lost and alone and afraid...OMG!
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:08 am

Good morning! Crazy busy got back late last night. exhausted.

star DiA
One thing I will say- I never noticed before how selfish Claire acts when asking Jamie not to duel BJR those times. Even when he is dueling she is still thinking she'll lose one of her men (Frank or Jamie)...and it's weird how she never thinks, OMG if Frank isn't born then maybe I won't ever go to the past and meet Jamie so I may disappear! Also the parallels of her bleeding out between her legs as BJR does. Also what the heck is Raymond doing with the blue in his hands????
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:42 am

I was just thinking about Raymond too, and Claire's concern about Jamie killing BJR so Frank would be born. Of course we know that BJR didn't turn out to be Frank's ggggrandfather, but didn't find that out until much later. I'm still bothered about Claire being so attached to Frank's ring, but I guess I need to get over that too. Random thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:29 am

yeah and she isn't so concerned about Jamie being injured. Jamie even says, don;t worry, I;ll win and she's like, no you can't because of Frank!!!! How insensitive. She doesn't even think or so, what if you kill him and I disappear? Or what of you get caught and arrested, what will happen to me and your unborn child? I also always wondered how Jared didn't hate Jamie...I mean he breaks the stained glass window. He winds up being accused of helping Mary get raped. He is arrested for dueling (and did he even bail out the warehouse guy or was there no one to do that business) and the rumor he was defending a whore because his wife had a difficult pregnancy. Then Claire gets him pardoned and he disappears (we know to go to the ship to ruin the Bonnie Prince- and Jared was a Jacobite) and doesn't go back to Jared's business. And why didn't Murtaugh get involved...I mean he never even visited her at L'hopital to tell her Jamie wasn't there because he was arrested. Did Murtaugh do Jamie's business in his absence (or did he get arrested too....I forget...have to get to that part again).
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:42 pm

star DIA star

Wow. A lot of good questions. Where was Murtaugh during all this? The "bleeding out" similarity had totally escapted me. I never did understand why someone didn't tell Claire that Jamie was in jail after she lost Faith. And, I still don't completely understand why Jamie came so close to leaving Claire after he knew she had survived the miscarriage. But, I think some of the questions asked earlier on this page might hold those answers. I think maybe Jamie thought Claire was putting more importance on the eventual survival of Frank than on him. It had to hurt him that she wanted to save the man who had brutalized him in prison in order to save a future husband. Why didn't she put more importance on Jamie's life than BJR's? We may know someday, but I sure don't have the answeres today.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:47 pm

star general spoiler star

As far as Frank's ring goes, I am not sure why she refused to part with it. We do know, from Geillis' papers, that silver and gold give some protection from the stones. Maybe it was just instinct from having the genetics of a traveler. I don't know. I think that Jamie showed a lot more consideration for her marriage to Frank than almost any other man would have. Most men would have been insulted by his wife wearing another man's ring, even if the other man was dead. However, there is a good chance that if she hadn't had both gold and silver she wouldn't have survived the second or third trips through the stones.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:35 pm

star DiA
I was thinking that Jamie felt guilty like he stole Claire from someone she had married under god (he is after all very religious), without Frank even having a chance to fight him for her. I think that is why he lets her wear the ring, and he wants her to be able to speak to him about anything. He wants no walls between them. He speaks to her about things (like the bitch), which most women wouldn't let their husbands discuss, or if they did, they'd be much less levelheaded than Claire. I think their openness and as Jamie said, being able to speak to her as if he spoke to his own soul, is what makes their relationship so deep and for us readers to be so jealous of it. I also think the rings did protect her while going through the stones. I will let you know my feelings on Jamie almost leaving her, but I did kind of have that feeling. I think he must have thought Claire knew why he dueled and still refused him and he also must have felt like Claire loved Frank more than his sanity. I also think he was mad at her sleeping with the king to have him released (not that he didn't do that with BJR for her). I think because it was a man with that she slept with there was wonder if she liked it and jealousy.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:39 pm

star DiA
Ok, Murtaugh was in Spain getting the info on Bonnie Charlie's port ship date *smacking my head* duh!
The guy from Jared's just arrived with Murtaugh's letter that arrived 2 weeks ago. Louisa knew that Jamie was in prison. She just met the pastor in the shed and they talked of Raymond and the circles he skates. She asked Raymond if he had vaccination scars and he was like huh? So it seems so far he has only moved forward in time.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:09 pm

This whole time frame bothered me a lot. I knew Jamie was commited to going to Spain but I felt that his first concern should have been for Claire and the baby. I believe he felt guilty, but he's never been a coward, for me, it felt like he was avoiding Claire because of this. I've only read through once, so perhaps I'll feel differently after the second read, which I am avoiding because of these situations......

Just an FYI, I started reading the Kate Daniels series because of everyone here mentioning how interesting Kate and Curren are together. I'm on book 2, and so far, so good. Not much action between those 2, but lots of other exciting things. Very enjoyable, as usual, you guys don't disappoint when recommending books smile
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:26 am

Kate Daniels is very good (gets better as you go along).

star DiA
Ugh- they just had the meeting in the King's chamber where she was used as the White Lady- one who can see one's soul and cannot lie. She can turn one's soul to good or evil....or something like that...it got me to thinking....Claire has a glass face so she really cannot lie...and she is very influential and can aspire and convince others to be good...wonder if this has anything to do with what the Indian Grandmother says to her later in the series about when she stops bleeding she will come into her power (or something like that). I am really mad at Fergus for not telling the whole story by this point. He should have blurbed the why of the duel before...but then I wonder if she would have been able to be with the king. Anger at Jamie helped fuel her to be able to do it. I wonder if she knew why he broke his vow to her if she wouldn't have been angry enough. Also, she sat there every day wondering the why of why Jamie never came to her and he was sitting in the Basile! Why would no one have thought to wonder that she was waiting for him and just tell her prior? I love the way Mother Hildergard helps her get ready for teh deed and makes her feel more comfortable even though she was helping her sin. She must know there was something more important involved than just getting her husband out of jail. I also wonder if there really is a tie between Claire, Frank, Jamie and BJR....I mean he dueled BJR and at the moment he was about to strike Claire fell also, then Claire bleeds in the same spot as BJR and when he almost kills BJR (and Frank) Jamie's baby is lost...like their baby in place of BJR and Frank's life. Maybe BJR dying at Culloden gives Claire the life of both Jamie and Bree? I have no idea. I am just talking out my ass right now!
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