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uapeople

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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:32 am

Ha ha "smut" filter...now I am thinking of Al in Kim Harrison for some reason!

star DiA
I must admit, it wasn't as bad the 3rd time around, but this time hearing it versus reading it did really make me feel how sad and bitter she was when she said to Jamie that she understood that he would have to do some things in order to achieve their goals, but how could you? But the humor was there as well. I still don't understand why she gave away a gold ring which probably cost big bucks in that time and age. And it never showed back up, so did Jamie sell it to someone? Could you imagine him trying to get some money for it? And Claire trying to see it it fit *snickers*. I;m sure he didn't go back to return it because he did seem quite scared of them attacking his person. Still will never understand why she bit him that hard to leave teeth...maybe because before the White Witch comment, when he was resisting to be faithful they were spiteful and wanted him to have a mark knowing whether he did anything or not at that point his wife would know. Maybe they thought that would lower his inhibitions?
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:33 am

Ok, now I'm interested in PsyCop...hmmmm
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:55 am

You should be interested in PsyCop. Very explicit m/m sex, but with a great story and characters I really liked. The "books" seem more like novellas, to me, and some say that. Don't care. Liked them.

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I always thought the "bite" was about just checking him out to see if he might be into rougher sex, since he wasn't responding to anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:09 am

I found that whole situation disturbing too. I'm not so sure I would have been as forgiving as Claire, but I finally chalked it up to the level of trust that Claire has regarding Jamie.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:25 pm

(*)DiA and future
Actually I never got how the bite happened or why until I got the idea I explained above. One was trying to do the number thing to him and the other just to pleasure him (lol like he said just the 6 part). I guess he must have been knocked down to a lying down position but then how did he get the neck hickey? I think I am over thinking this. The way he just came out and said have you ever heard of a six-neuf...so calmly I would have smacked him right then and there!!!! I guess you're right it was the trust, but at this point it seemed Claire had believe at least something (maybe not full on sex but something had occurred). She even said she thought so in not so many words. Heck she was angrier when she had that beating! I think it would have been the reverse for me. The question to you all, had Jamie come home to Leghair in this condition, what would have have done in your opinion?
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:54 pm

What would Leghair have done to Jamie? Well, she seems to be pretty handy with a gun....definitely not as understanding as Claire.
star Spoiler star
The Native American girls sleeping naked with Jamie also bothered me, A LOT. I believe his values and love for Claire would prevent him from doing anything, but just being in that position lends itself to temptation and speculation. Who needs that?
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:26 pm

star spoilers for series
I hated the squaws as well...and why did he not wear britches instead of a kilt of naked if he had to sleep on the same bed with them due to Indian hospitality? I guess it was like penance to himself that he got himself into that situation so he was self punishing himself. If I were Claire though, and I caught wind that he slept naked with 2 squaws every time he visited Bird, sex or not, I'd be pissed! I'm making this up, but I mean how would Jamie feel if he found out that Claire slept in between Wiley and Tom because she had to for hospitality? Well maybe that is worse because she kissed both...well they kissed her, but still. How would you feel if you heard your husband slept naked on a bed with 2 young viral, willing, sexual women that were very willing make a child and needed no support from you for it. Mmmppphhhmmm!

And Leghair- I'm torn. First she never would have tried spying to save lives, nor does she have the brains for it. She also would be a bitch to Jared's staff. I think had that happened to her she'd either do nothing, because after all she really cared nothing for him and then he wouldn't have to bother her in bedroom since she hated it with him anyway. She would be living it up in Paris in style to be tended to like the princess she thinks she is. She wouldn't want to give that up. Or she'd tun out of the room pouting and maybe would find a married man and go sleep with him to calm her nerves, or maybe take her power of being the lady of the house and force one of the males servants to be her lover. Not sure. I just don;t see her shooting him in this situation. I think she shot home in the Claire situation because she didn't want to face the fact that it was Claire all along that he loved and he wasn't bewitched (spelled by witchcraft) and she was jealous and couldn't admit defeat to someone she thought lesser than her.
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2shay



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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:36 pm

Wow....What happened? I just posted, and it went away! Well, I will say it again, I guess.

doxie--As you can see, you will get a lot of agreement on the Indian women. I just laughed, because Ian was laughing. He was rolling around in his blanket in histerics. He knows better than anyone how his uncle Jamie feel about Claire. He was there to see the look of outrageous discomfort on Jamie's face. I deferred judgement to Ian. If he thought it was funny, so did I. :D
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:01 pm

FaeLadyFaye wrote:
Do you have your filters set on smut?
Always :oops: :oops:
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http://www.wearegoingonawitchhunt.blogspot.com
2shay



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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:36 pm

And, uap, you are right. If it was RL and my husband, he'd better make sure I never found out. Having a nephew as witness could be touchy. If I found out, I would probably shoot him....at least.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:46 pm

I'd shoot my nephew too! Ian had a good idea what would happen, but I guess being pc isn't exactly a new concept.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:50 pm

yeah!! But, the hubby would go down first.

I'm glad it isn't RL, though. It's pretty easy to laugh at someone else in that situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:53 pm

Hubby, first then nephew, then I'd look for some little naked girls!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:28 pm

Now that I caught up on all my new releases I am back to Dragofly tonight. I really am enjoying this series, but I fear it will be forever before I can discuss it with you guys. Thanks for all the 🌠 so I can protect myself.

Jamie ~ sigh Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:48 pm

Oh Yes, how far are you into DIA? It is such a good story. Really complex. We get so many more details from their lives than with most stories. We can really get involved.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:37 pm

star Full series spoilers star
I just had a horrible thought...people raped in this series:

Young Ian by Geilis
Jamie by BJR (well he agreed, but I'd say it was rape) (plus he was pretty forcefully attacked by baudy gals and squaws, and as a kid by the guy he was trying to get to pardon him at Leoch)
Claire by the men who took her from the Ridge (and also aggressively manhandled by Wiley and the lesbian at the jail, and almost raped by the St Germain men and BJR when he abducted her)
Mary Hawkins - By the St Germain masked guys outside L'Hopital
Lord John - while he was a young soldier
Jenny - almost rape by BJR
Bree - by Bonnett

Am I missing any?
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2shay



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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:56 pm

star star star

I think that is all, but I am not sure. It was a violent time. Rape is about violence, domination and humiliation. Control. Mostly there was no recourse, either. I would not be surprised if it wasn't more frequent than depicted by DG. If you count the slaves who were taken to their masters beds, there are many, many more.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:01 pm

star star star

Although we don't know, I think from her behavior that it is entirely possible that Leghair might have been raped after Culloden. And there was the preacher's sister who was gang raped by soldiers and left to die.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:27 am

star spoilers for series star
I am just trying to think of the parallels between the characters and rape was one of them. It also is very interesting how each one of them handles it. It almost seems as if Jamie handles it the worst, but that is also because he agreed to it to save Claire and there couldn't fight it. Plus being a man, he couldn't help when he was stimulated to completion. He had a really hard time with that and then when the baudy ladies were manhandling him, he was disgusted with himself for the lust and again his automatic response and thinks his soul is dark. I also find it quite ironic that he disowned his sister for what he thought- he thought she gave herself to Randal to save him, but then he does the same thing (but yet he does give up on himself afterward until Claire saves him), but then Claire in turn gives herself to the king for not only him but to save the plan that would hopefully save all Scots from perishing at Culloden. He forgives her pretty easily because of their love and the understanding on why she did it. I still wonder why she never really discussed it with him though. Then when Mary is raped he says to Claire how hard it is for Mary and for Alex Randall...and little does he know it will happen to Claire 20+ years later and they will have to deal. Also, he feels he must have intercourse with her because of what happened to Bree when she was raped and Jemmy came out of it. He saw Roger and the small hope that Jemmy was his, had made him and Claire feel they must have sex immediately...which I think in a messed up way helped Claire get past it much faster. I remember McRannouch (sp?) saying to Jamie after BJR to have sex with her ASAP and let Claire heal him...he didn't and see what happened? I wonder if he had listened if things wouldn't have gotten that extreme? I also wonder if McRannouch was raped at some point? Did Jamie realize his mistake and made sure he healed Claire right away? The way Claire took Jamie that night in a way reminded me of when she and LJ were together.

There is another thing that is interesting the amount of hangings that were foiled...Bonnet, Roger, and I thought another...
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:19 pm

2shay - I am just starting it, on page 81. Finally, spent some time last night googling the places in the book and looking up some information on the history of the clans and the battles. I love it when books make me want to find out more, when I have to research something. That is my favorite type of book, probably why I have always loved historical fiction.

star DIA star
She is prego and in France, Jamie just left to meet his wine relative. I met Brianna and full grown Roger. They are so cute together. Really enjoying it even if it is the size of 5 books, considering there are about 2 1/2 normal pages on one of DG's.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:42 pm

(*) Spoilers (*)

Hello my friends!

In regards to the rapes, don't forget about BJR's rape of the guy in jail (can't remember name, but it was in Scotland) that Jamie returned the bible to his family.

I will never understand why Jamie married Leghair other than that is how DG wanted the storyline to go. Jamie is an honorable man, Jamie also knew of Claire's dislike/jealousy of Leghair following their return to Leoch afer their wedding and Claire thinking Jamie had gone off cavorting with Leghair. Jamie is the hero of Scotland and he could have had any lassie that he wanted. But no, he chooses the one bitch that could not make him happy.

Jamie was aroused during his rape by BJR (against his will). Jamie is a sexual beast, so if he and Leghair had a regular sex routine as DG "probably" stated they had, then L would have enjoyed it at some point. If she didn't, there was a reason other than readers just didn't want to accept the fact that J & L had enjoyable sex. IMO Claire suffered without Jamie, so should Jamie suffer without Claire (although Jamie got the raw end of the deal with imprisonment, lack of home, and then servitude).
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:44 pm

The outlander series is one of my favorite series. It's so rich, thought provoking and moving, there is no comparison to the quality of storytelling Gabaldon has created in this fictional world. It's absolutely brilliant.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:55 pm

Autumn aka Autumnleaves wrote:
(*) Spoilers (*)

Hello my friends!

In regards to the rapes, don't forget about BJR's rape of the guy in jail (can't remember name, but it was in Scotland) that Jamie returned the bible to his family.

I will never understand why Jamie married Leghair other than that is how DG wanted the storyline to go. Jamie is an honorable man, Jamie also knew of Claire's dislike/jealousy of Leghair following their return to Leoch afer their wedding and Claire thinking Jamie had gone off cavorting with Leghair. Jamie is the hero of Scotland and he could have had any lassie that he wanted. But no, he chooses the one bitch that could not make him happy.

Jamie was aroused during his rape by BJR (against his will). Jamie is a sexual beast, so if he
and Leghair had a regular sex routine as DG "probably" stated they had, then L would have enjoyed it at some point. If she didn't, there was a reason other than readers just didn't want to accept the fact that J & L had enjoyable sex. IMO Claire suffered without Jamie, so should Jamie suffer without Claire (although Jamie got the raw end of the deal with imprisonment, lack of home, and then servitude).

I don't think Claire suffered as much as Jamie. I mean, she didn't have to deal with prejudice, isolation and post traumatic stress disorder. When you think about it, Jamie had to endure a helluvalot more than his "wife" if you can call her that.

L and J most likely did enjoy their sex as did Claire and Frank. I also think Claire loved Frank, maybe not as much, but enough to care about the idea of affairs and wearing her ring long after his death.
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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:58 am

star general speculation star

I just don't worry too much about what happened while Jamie and Claire were separated except for the impact on the story. I am glad that Jamie didn't really fall in love while Claire was gone. His marriage to L could have been better, but it would have messed with his feelings more when Claire returned. He felt bad enough about leaving a woman he didn't really even like. It would have been impossible to deal with a situation where he cared a lot for a woman he left for Claire. And, I feel sure he would have left anyone for Claire, her being his first wife. Then knowing that she had left everything behind in a different time to be with him. Nope. That would have never worked. The only one he could have married for the story to work, was L. All the crap that Jenny pulled had to happen for the story line as well. Perfect story. From that pov, L is a great character construct. On a more emotional level.....I hate her! She will forever be Leghair.

ETA: Claire had a big problem staying after she found out about the marriage to Leghair. If L hadn't tried to kill him, I doubt she would have come back. L being the hateful bitch she is was the only reason Claire could stay. Claire knew what kind of person L was. Taking Jamie back from her was a little victory, although we never saw that attitude from Claire's pov...Just mine. :D


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PostSubject: Re: Diana Gabaldon- Outlander Series - the whole series!   Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:03 am

The simple fact L can engender such intense emotions from so many people proves she is a great character. Interestingly, most of the comments I've read about her also point out 1 or 2 good things. Only 1 or 2, and they are usually the same things, but they exist.
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